Are people who willfully mistrain reCaptcha liable for self driving car crashes? Or is Google liable for the integrity of its training data? Or is this another potential non-attributable unfortunate accident of the algorithm?

@feonixrift Google is, definitely. The people coerced into doing the captchas have no expectation of having made no legal agreements with Google (Captchas are used just fine -- incredibly enthusiastically, even -- with people using Tor), so it is Google's assertion entirely that there is any value to the dataset.

If they argue any differently I am slashing the tires of every single one of their self-driving pieces of trash.

@gaditb @feonixrift In all seriousness, my guess is that the liability for self-driving accidents will remain solely with the "driver", who *technically* could have stepped in.
@wxcafe @feonixrift @gaditb Yeah, they will keep saying this while marketing the thing as self-driving and making it easier and easier to take the hands of the wheel

@elomatreb @wxcafe @feonixrift How long do you think it'll be before the rich jerks that are gonna be the market for this hire less-well-paid-chauffeurs ("You're not actually doing any driving, so!") to act as a liability crumple-zone?

@elomatreb @wxcafe @feonixrift ..... actually, wait, it's gonna START like this, innit, cause they're also pushing for this to replace truckers, first, so they're gonna put them in the trucks, cut down on both pay and workforce/time to sleep while on a trip, and use THEM.

@gaditb In the specific case of trucking I predict they will be the first actually fully autonomous ones, if they only drive on reasonable well-build highways it's much more safe than on residential/country roads and they can keep driving for days (even for a supervisory driver the daily driving hours apply), which would make them much more cost effective

@gaditb @elomatreb @wxcafe @feonixrift would paying for a chauffeur be cheaper than some kinda insurance? :thonking:
i guess the damage to a public figure's reputation would cost them a lot indirectly so a full-time chauffeur may be worth it for them??

@gaditb @feonixrift IME the captchas I see are nearly always American roads (occasionally I see German ones). USA traffic terms like "crosswalk" are often used.

I live in UK, we have different road signs format, drive on the other side of the road, there are different names things too.

The only road signs I am legally expected to recognise are the normal UK ones I encounter when riding my bike (or for a theory test for driving cars).

Google can't assume everyone has a driving license either!

@feonixrift Analogous question: how does google assert the training quality of the algorithm when encountering edge cases.

@feonixrift The whole thing is on Google if they choose to use data that way. The idea of even asking that question is imho, insulting to any sense of justice and morality.

@feonixrift You don’t even need to assume bad faith from ReCaptcha users. One thing I am worried about is cross-cultural misunderstandings: What if I miss a pedestrian crossing in ReCaptcha because I don’t know that they don’t look like zebra stripes in some other countries? What if I mark some boards as “street signs” when they are just billboards written in a language I don’t understand? What would the effects be in those cases, and who would be responsible if they cause accidents?

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