The main reason I recommend everybody study at least a little history is that it really brings home that the past was just completely fucking awful

In seriousness, I think this is actually an underappreciated element of anti-fascism.

A core element of fascist ideology is the idea that there was once a perfect, ideal past, that we through our degeneracy let slip away. The fascist promises to bring us back to it by being a stern ruler who will punish us for our sins.

So it's important to help people understand that there was NEVER a perfect, ideal past. There was just people and their various screw-ups. And people now are fundamentally the same as people then. The clothes change, the rituals change, but people are people.


I think your toot explains why fundamentalism and fascism are so friendly. They both have this delusion at their heart and both lie about the past. Except that fundamentalism has a bigger incentive to believe the lie since they use it to explain why God created such an imperfect world.

@SnerkRabbledauber There is definitely a lot of overlap. Fundamentalists tend to believe in a stern god who punishes people when they don't follow his rules, so the idea of a human ruler made in that image feels right.

The smart fascists foster this connection explicitly. Franco, for instance, did quite well by positioning himself as a sort of Defender of the Faith.

@jalefkowit @SnerkRabbledauber

That whole defender of the faith thing links nicely into Putin's (orthodox mother) Russia as well.

@esty @SnerkRabbledauber Not even just Orthodox. There are an awful lot of Evangelical American Protestants who think Putin is some kind of Christian warrior, because he happens to oppress the same people they would like to oppress.


@jalefkowit @esty @SnerkRabbledauber finally being forced to see that overlap for what it was, stripped of any sense of immunity for the one that should have been the true church, was one of the things that made me quite comfortable in identifying as an atheist now after 7 years of devout Orthodox practice

@carcinopithecus @jalefkowit @esty

In the US, Christian's reaction to Trump and to Covid-19 have ruined my wife's faith in the church. She remains a believer, but finally sees the danger of religion.

One of my daughter in-laws seems to be on the verge of becoming atheist, which would be a big change for her.

This is what happens when you mix state and religion. It is bad for both!

@carcinopithecus @jalefkowit @SnerkRabbledauber

I respect that. Walking away from a community is very hard, and for many so hard that their principles take a back seat to it.

I think there's big 'A' Atheism and little 'a' atheism these days though, where many of the 'big A' atheist 'gurus' are super transphobic and/or racist (e.g. Dawkins, Pinker, etc). So these days I'm reluctant to apply that term to myself.

@esty @carcinopithecus @jalefkowit

I just say I'm a non-believer. I don't believe there is but I'm not fully sure there isn't *some form* of supreme being.

@SnerkRabbledauber @carcinopithecus @jalefkowit

I was raised without religion, I wasn't like baptised and my family didn't attend church, so it simply never mattered to me until people started telling me i "could not have morals without religion". Then of course I got offended.

@esty @carcinopithecus @jalefkowit

It's fun to see how people in the early Christian church would tie themselves in knots dealing with the paradox of supremely moral and respected philosophers like Socrates and Aristotle were pagans! It usually came up with questions like "If only faith in Jesus saves us, is Socrates in Hell?"

@esty @carcinopithecus @jalefkowit

Oops. "were pagans" should be "being pagans". Sloppy editing on my part.

@SnerkRabbledauber @esty @jalefkowit it's certainly not something restricted to the early church either, even if a lot of the normie population of believers have just numbed themselves to the thought

@SnerkRabbledauber @carcinopithecus @jalefkowit

I think it's very interesting. I don't feel as defensive about my non-religion as many of my friends who were raised in a church. Also, I don't reject everything. I reject dualism right enough, I have no reason for a 'soul' because I was never raised to require one, but I -do- see the importance of ritual. Like, celebrations are important, taking time for grieving is important etc.

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